Problems with CoPilot Live - Returning for refund

[tedkay]

Hi Dave

Giving ALK a call sounds a breeze, just like calling a pal. Until you try. I tried today - all day at about hourly intervals and all I got was an answering machine telling me that all the operators were busy. It didn't even give the option to hang on and wait until someone was free. The only option is to leave a message and wait until they ring back. But who on earth has got the time to sit around waiting for the call back when you don't have a clue when or if it will happen. Talk about Taking the Mickey! The irony is that I only bought CoPilot after deciding that TomTom customer service was the worst on earth (well OK second to eBay).

My early trials of CoPilot 5 aren't too promising either, so far it seems vastly inferior to TomTom Navigator. I had to have three attempts at downloading data to a storage card. During the 10 mile trial run I did tonight it lost the satellite completely on three occasions and CoPilot had to be restarted. It doesn't show the route or speed in navigation mode. And as far as I could see there were two options for types of vehicle - car and RV, no mention of aeroplanes at all - so why on earth do I keep seeing the distance remaining in 'Air Miles' ? Unless CoPilot expects me to start going cross-country I cannot see any possible use for giving the distance that way.
I don't seem to be able to search for a location without planning a route to it. The speech volume (which is already bad on an Ipaq 5550) is too low to hear, and is anyway basic to put it mildly. There is no manual on the CD's, the help in the program itself is scant, and the help on the ALK website consists of a very few FAQ's. I could go on but you're probably well bored by now. I sincerely hope that I am wrong and haven't given CoPilot a fair crack of the whip yet - but my early impression is that TomTom is in a different league.
Ted

[xantia]

Hi tedkay, my sentiments completly, I feel the CoPilot5 is far inferior to TT3. After several post and help from Dave & robin2, I am still of the same opinion. Anyone want to buy a CoPilot5.

Mike

[johnbarnes]

Hello tedkay,

I think you are being a little unfair to CoPilot5, though I can't compare it with TT3, only with NavMan SmartST 2.

I have called ALK on a couple of occasions in the last week and got through with little delay to someone who was able to give me immediate and useful answers.

There is a manual on the CD. Admittedly the help on the PDA is a bit sparse, but have you looked at the help in the companion PC application? There is plenty there, covering both PC and PDA topics.

I use CoPilot5 with an iPaq h5550 and find the volume just as good as NavMan - i.e. both of them need amplification in the car (I use and Arkon powered PDA mount for this).

Regards,
John

[tedkay]

My trial goes on. I reinstalled everything today to ensure I hadn't had a bad install the first time. The insall progrm itself is full of glitches (eg halfway thru the download a pop-up window appears UNDER the preceding one, so you can't read what it says!) The install locked on the download twice and I had to CTrL ALT DeL and restart twice! Today I saved a route on the pc and copied it to Pocket PC. When I entered that route (58 miles Ringwood to Aldermaston) it informed me that the distance is 3515 air miles!! (I'm still totally befuddled by the air miles thing anyway!) This is most disappointing because it was the ability to allow routes to be planned on the PC then transferred to the Pocket PC that drew me to it. I have to say that the PC version is something like 10 years behind any other PC mapping software I use (eg you can't grab the screen and move around it - you have to use the scroll bars top and bottom which is archaic and tedious,' you can't do a simple place search, it doesn't even name your stops onscreen as you enter them which makes it extremely difficult to plan a route across the map with multiple stops, it has little keyboard functionality. It does have a comprehensive help section, a great deal of which is for the Pocket PC version. More of this in the PocketPC help files would be very useful - what's there now is very limited and in these days of high capacity storage cards some extra text files are hardly going to fill them up. Bearing in mind that this is by nature a mobile tool it seems remarkable that CoPilot keeps 99% of the PocketPC help files in the desktop version!

It doesn't seem able to keep hold of the satellite for more than a few minutes at a time, then the program has to be restarted to get a fix back.

I tried the support line again today - still all busy and no option to hold on. Left a message for them to ring me back but so far no response.

Does anyone know what the two little arrows and symbol beside them at the bottom right corner of the (PocketPC) screen are for? Clicking on them does nothing....

I feel that CoPilot have focused on some gimmicky features to make the program more saleable and in the process misssed out some very important functions.

I will be keeping TomTom so I can do some navigating - if I relied on CoPilot I would never reach a destination!

Ted

[tedkay]

Hi John

I'm not sure what you meant when you said that you got through to ALK 'with little delay'. Did you mean that you didn't get the answering machine? - in which case one would asume that a human answered and you would have had no delay at all. Or did you get a different answerphone message to the one I got (get), a message which DOES allow you to hang on until someone is free and you only had a short delay in a queue?

I am continuing to test CoPilot (see heading 'CoPilot needs TomTom as its' copilot) - I hope with an open mind. But I can only speak as I find and so far I find CoPilot vastly inferior to TomTom. Anywat I have had to buy CoPilot to find out so ALK won't be bothered about my views becasue they have my money now!

For the record I use TomTom and CoPilot on the same 5550 and the TomTom volume is a lot louder than CoPilots. TomTom is loud enough to hear without an additional speaker in a car (not in a van or RV).

How can I be being 'unfair' to CoPilot when I am simply describing my issues with it?
Ted

[Dave]

[tedkay]

Dave

I’m afraid I don’t agree with you at all. The more I use CoPilot the more deficiencies I find with it. I’m quite surprised at the apparent force of your feelings about criticism of CoPilot….

No phone support. I really don’t accept the old stock excuse that they are too busy to answer the phone, or even allow the customer to hang on until someone is free. If they are that busy then that means they have sold that much of their product and they should employ sufficient staff to provide the phone support their advertising promises. I rang repeatedly last week and got the answering machine each time. I left my number for a call-back and that has not come. Anyway as I said previously it is unreasonable of them to expect a customer to sit around and wait for a call-back that they have no way of knowing if or when it will come – that scenario means that in effect they take over your life because you have to sit there by your phone until they decide to ring (if in fact they do at all). It is hardly realistic for you to compare your personal experience with their service to mine – they have a huge vested interest in giving you good service. I sent them an email several days ago which is still unanswered (at least they can claim parity with TomTom in that respect – but unfortunately I bought CoPilot hoping they might improve upon TomToms’ abysmal support).

Yesterday I used it in the Reading area, using a TomTom BTGPS unit. I used both TT Navigator and CoPilot alternately. Using TT Navigator the satellite fix was of good strength whenever I used it. CoPilot lost it’s fix repeatedly despite reporting the connection to the receiver being fine. Each time the only way to get the fix back was to soft reset the Ipaq and restart. I have plenty of memory available. The program hung on several occasions. These problems alone are sufficient to render CoPilot unusable.

My point about the Guidance versus Navigating mode in CoPilot was that you can’t see the planned route in Navigating mode, only in guidance. It is very useful in TT to be able to switch between the two and still see the planned route in map view because you see a much bigger picture and can take an alternate route to avoid any hold ups at a glance. Anyway, how can you check a route chosen by CoPilot if you can’t switch to map view and zoom out to see the entire route? Once I have chosen 3D view in Guidance mode there is no option in the menu to go back to Map view.

Air miles – my point, as I am sure you know, was that there is absolutely no use or reason for giving distances in a program for driving navigation in air miles – no matter how far away you happen to be. A few hundred ‘air yards’ could in fact be a lot more on the road. I would be interested to hear ALKs’ explanation for something so utterly stupid.

I mentioned that you can’t simply search for a place, you have to plan a trip, and you replied:

‘You plan a trip, you don't have to complete the whole trip, just start a new trip, search for the location, add it to the itinerary, tap and hold the address and you can show map.’
Well how clumsy and laborious is that? And when you show the place in the Map view you can’t tap and hold it and save it as a favourite – another major failing.

I have also found that the POI alert takes over the entire screen and requires user input to get rid of it. So suddenly your guidance has disappeared altogether. When you cancel it there are no audible or other warnings and since the minimum distance away it can be set to appear is 0.5 miles the feature is completely useless (at least as far as Safety Cameras are concerned).

The safety screen is a nightmare. It pops up seemingly at random and at no given speed. In my opinion the safety screen is not more safe anyway. I fail to see the difference in terms of safety between looking at a screen with text on it and a couple of symbols, and a map with the route ahead on it. In fact because the map view shows the road ahead with junctions, bends etc. that is more conducive to safety that the so called safety screen. Anyway why does it keep appearing unbidden?

Re: my install problems. I am running XP SP2. I was downloading to 512 MB SD card through a card reader.

You said:

‘Personally I don't think you've given CoPilot a try, use it day in day out and that's where you will see the advantages of CoPilot. Actually being able to search for an address and have it appear rather than having to zoom into an are of the map like you do have to a lot on TomTom.’

But in TT the beauty of being able to zoom into the area of the map is that you can see all the surrounding area and get a good mental picture of the locality. You can also search for a place and then simply hold the stylus on it and save the place as favourite. CoPilot doesn’t give this option – in fact its’ whole favourites system is clumsy and confusing.
I can’t use it day in and day out because it keeps hanging, or losing the satellite or both. I have persisted (having to repeatedly pull-over and reset the Ipaq) to try and give it a fair trial.

I agree that Navteq maps are better. Unfortunately CoPilot more than loses that advantage by its’ hugely reduced functionality. There is no comparison for instance between TT’s extensive array of options and menus and CoPilots’ very basic offering.

Roll on TomToms’ next release!

Regards
Ted

[CrashBiker]

Ted,

If you don't like CoPilot I'm certainly not here to try and change your mind, but a couple of observations:

You say: "since the minimum distance away it can be set to appear is 0.5 miles the feature is completely useless"

The minimum distance you can set for POI alerting, including safety cameras, is 0.2 miles (you need to scroll up the options list).

You say: "I have also found that the POI alert takes over the entire screen and requires user input to get rid of it."

You can respond to the POI alert immediately to dismiss it if you choose, but if you do nothing it should time out and vanish after a few seconds anyway.

I suspect it is these type of errors that suggest to some readers that you haven't spent much time with the product. If you have & you still don't like it, fair enough, it would be a dull world if everyone liked the same things.

Some other observations just in case you haven't given up on CoPilot completely just yet:

Re Safety screen: I'm no great fan myself, the cut in speed is very low and not adjustable so basically you get a map when approaching a junction or when stopped. I do find it helps when I'm driving motorways as I have caught myself on occasion watching the map for interest and just having the black screen/countdown is safer for me at least. So I only use it on motorways.

I really like in CoPilot5 that with a couple of seconds and 3 jabs of a finger (one to bring up top row buttons, second to hit "Change View" button, 3rd to pick my chosen view) I can select any of the map views (I think) you are describing.

I can get:
- Current area 2D
- Current area 3D
- 2D map to next turn
- 2D map to destination

To me this is quicker and safer than messing around with zoom levels and better than what I remember of TomTom (apologies if wrong, it's been a while).

Plus on any map you can set it such that tapping the map with your finger will zoom in to that location (or box zoom).

I certainly don't believe it is perfect, and I agree that not being able to search for a place without routing to it is a pain, but in the 'where it counts' area of map quality, routing quality, instructions & on-screen mapping whilst driving for me it is still the best I have seen.

Kind regards

Crash

[Dave]

[tedkay]

Hi Dave

I’m not looking to argue and I do appreciate your exhaustive replies. I should think some of the info you have given will be appreciated by others too.

The POI 0.5 distance I quoted was actually simply me forgetting the exact figure because I report from memory. In fact I knew it was 0.2 but it’s academic anyway, the point is that because there are no repeats as you close in on the POI (Safety Camera) after you have cancelled it, you are likely to forget it. My biggest problem with it is that it takes over the entire screen and completely obliterates the guidance until you cancel it. This happened again today just as I was approaching a complicated junction at a time when I didn’t want to be finger stabbing the screen, because I was feverishly scanning signposts to ascertain which way to go. There is no need for the warning to take the entire screen and I think it may be that CoPilot programmers, mindful of the memory issue you referred-to are reluctant to use overlays.

I know that it takes time to learn new software, but I think I can reasonably expect a good proportion to be intuitive. If it isn’t the learning curve is much bigger. You mentioned in response to my stating that there is no option to switch back from 3d to 2d mode ‘You switch to 3D view or WHERE AM I and this will show you the map. If you want 2D map choose WHERE AM I.’ Well there is nothing intuitive about a menu which requires me to choose ‘Where am I’ when I want to change the map view. Call me picky but I would expect to be zoomed into a map portion where I am if I choose that option. What if I want to go back to 2d and don’t want to go to where I am? Would it to so hard for the menu to simply offer an option ‘2D View’? Ninety percent of the things you have pointed out to me in terms of using the program do no appear in the help files or the pathetic few small printed pages that CoPilot has the effrontery to describe (in their advertising) as a Manual. So how is one expected to ‘learn’ all this?

I have to say that in your replies you seem to ignore any points that are valid or only reply to part of my comment. For instance you did not say anything about the random nature of the Safety Screen (which needs two taps to get rid off), nor the fact that the ability to see upcoming bends and junctions can certainly be said to help safe driving. It is anyway disorientating to have this screen popping up whenever it feels like it and swapping between Safety and Map wildly. Nobody can tell me that this is anything other than distracting and distinctly Unsafe.

I said that CoPilot keeps losing its’ satellite fix. You said that this has nothing to do with the software. So how come when I alternate with TomTom I get the problem only in CoPilot? CoPilot keeps thinking it has no fix, that is the problem. Here’s an example from today. I had a fix (7 satellites) and planned a route of a few miles. I drove those few miles and everything was OK. I then planned a route to another destination, found the place, selected Start Driving and the screen displayed a message in big red letters ‘Couldn’t open Com port’ . Checking the GPS status showed no satellite reception. So I had to restart the program. The GPS was fine. Then I went into Planning Mode and found a new destination. I then chose Get Directions and then went to the Guidance Mode. I then got the message ‘GPS Receiving off. Turn on for Navigation’. The screen then switched to map with a message saying ‘Enter a Stop for Route Guidance’. I thought I had already done this and I went back to The GPS options and found that I had 7 satellites again! It seems that whenever I try to plan a new destination the GPS fix is lost.

You speak of the memory leak that CoPilot are working on as if it was a minor factor. In fact it prevents the program from running properly or hangs the PDA, and this can hardly be dismissed as a minor inconvenience. It makes the software unusable which is not something to be brushed aside. It means that CoPilot have sold me a program with a major known fault. Similarly I do not expect to be considered unreasonable in highlighting their abysmal customer support because they have staff problems! That is their business and they are well aware of it and still advertise phone support to help them sell the software. The answering machine enables them to cut off phone support at their whim, and if they get away with this kind of cavalier attitude to their customers they will have no need or incentive to improve the situation.

Something else rather odd happened today. Driving along near Reading my wife and I thought it would be a nice idea to find somewhere by the Thames to stop. The trouble was that when I came to look for the Thames on the map it wasn’t there! Neither was the Kennet, nor The Kennet & Avon Canal. In fact the only water shown appeared to be a couple of lakes.

I can’t find an option to put a compass on screen. This is quite essential in a program that gives instructions directionally as in ‘ Go North on Sulhamstead Hill and’. (That truncated message is exactly as it appears until the mode changes - in it’s own sweet time).

I can assure that having spent the best part of £250 on this with the EU map key I want it too be good, better than TomTom – nobody likes to admit they have been had. I haven’t quite given up yet but I am getting near it. I am really fed up with its’ lack of intuitiveness, and use of inaccurate phrases on the menus. Maybe I’m a miserable old sod because I don’t find stuff like ‘Where am I’ anything other than a vain attempt at being fresh and trendy. I think the plain and simple (and concise) phrase ‘Current Location’ does the job very well. And if you throw in the fact that ‘Where am I’ can actually mean ‘Switch to 2D Mode’ it becomes even more stupid.

Ted

[topgazza]

To be fair to Ted he appears to be experiencing something that most non experts fear. Buying an expensive product and either not getting it working right or the product just not performing. This is usually, in my experience , down to an over optimistic expectation of its ease of use. The fault there lies with the manufacturers who paint a positive view of its features but ignore the fact that not everyone has time, or the inclination, to spend hours studying a manual or trying things out. "We" expect things to just work and why the heck not? The first manufacturer who puts the main effort into intuitive user interfaces and puts nice to have features second will clean up.

I'm still confident that CP5 will be OK for me but if Ted's experience is repeated for me, despite the typically helpful posts of Dave and others, then ALK's reputation will take a turn for the worse. Dealing with customers, of the non retail variety, for many years as an IT Project Manager I have come to learn that in most cases it is "finger trouble" or a rogue server for instance that is the root cause. However Ted's troubles seem harder to diagnose as that and may be a combination of bad luck and loss of confidenece in CP5. Answer? I dunno! Apart from stick with TT3 but having spent his hard earned cash..............

I think ALK should get their act together as this is not the first complaint over customer support I've seen here. As the bulk of their sales now and in the future will be more and more into "Joe Public" rather than experienced users the sooner the better.

[Dave]

[tedkay]

Hi Dave

I had a moan about the fact that CoPilot doesn't give the option to have a compass on-screen. You said that just becauseTomTom does I can't expect another program to have it too. I can appreciate that (and wouldn't it be boring if they were all identical) but my point was that CoPliot gives instructions directionally as in 'Go North etc' and those instructions are useless if there is no Compass to go with them. It really goes without saying that if you are not going to include a compass option then you can't give directions that depend on one knowing exactly what compass bearing you are travelling.

My Ipaq 5550 (which has the most memory available of any PDA as far as I am aware) has just come back from HP having had the infamous interface board replaced and the latest ROM upgrade installed. It is working fine. I am very careful to ensure that no other programs are running alongside CoPilot. I always start off with a soft reset.

I find it unacceptable that CoPilot make no effort at all to make the prduct intuitive and user-friendly. Not all of us have the time to learn new sotware by trial and error and I feel that comprehensive manuals either hard or on disc are essential. Their product is incomplete without it.

By the way, as I said, CoPilot hadn't actually lost the GPS fix, it just thought it had. I stayed in the same spot and when I re-entered the trip suddenly it registered the GPS fine again. It would appear that there is some glitch in the routing process. I am trying to discover what the subtle difference is between 'Get Directions' (which I would have thought meant just that, and that after doing it I would expect to see the directions on screen), and 'Start Driving'...??!! There seems to be two separate processes involved here (needlessly complex?) and both must be invoked to get the thing to work.

I finally received a call from ALK on Friday. I wasn't here to take it - strange as it may seem to the people at ALK I have a life and can't spend all day sitting her in case they phone. They left a message saying they will phone back on Monday but gave no time, even AM or PM, despite my specific request on the message I left with them that they give me a time. So again they expect me to sit here all day until they ring. That is unreasonable and puts their so-called customer support firmly at the bottom of the pile.

Isn't it just remarkable that here is a company in direct competition with several others, debatably the leader of which has a terrible reputation for customer support, and yet rather than think to themselves 'OK - well there is one area where we can outdo the others and steal a march on them' they seem to have gone the other way and decided to provide even worse customer support! They really do not deserve to do well with that attitude.

Ted

[tedkay]

Hi Dave

Sorry - I forgot to ask, why are there no waterways shown on the CoPliot maps? Waterways are a huge part of our leisure world and finding places 'On the Water' is something I and I am sure many others do a lot.
Ted

[Dave]

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